So, we disparage the level of discourse, and then ask ‘did your mother have any children that lived?’? The cognitive dissonance, not to mention downright hypocrisy, makes my head a-splode.

You would like to think I hate Christians. You’d like to feel like a persecuted victim. I don’t actually HATE anyone though I do use the word hate alot. I hate green peppers. I hate the gym. I hate Knoxville traffic. I hate litterbugs. Do I seriously want anything bad to happen to these people? No. I may say I wish someone covered a litterer’s yard with ciggarette butts but that does not translate into “I want them assaulted.” A major truth is you like to twist the news and what people say like you claim Doug does, but I actually saw it in action with you. I read your blog that mentions I want you raped. Whats the point in rationally debating someone so deluded?

I don’t hate Christians at all, nor muslims, hindus, or anyone else. Most religions have *some* good points. I “hate” stupid Christians. I hate *stupid* muslims. “hate” stupid people. My entire family and quite a lot of my friends are Christians and I love them with all my heart. Its just that they aren’t stupid or willfully ignorant Christians, do you see the difference? I dislike Christians who I feel do a lame job of being Christ-like, such as yourself. You may write that you are full of joy and gods love, but if churches are full of people like you, I don’t want to be anywhere near them. I don’t think the character christ was a capitalist and wanted the 2% to live high on the hog while the other 98 % suffered and toiled. I don’t think he would have liked people dying because of lack of healthcare or losing their homes due to unchecked greed and/or medical bills. I don’t think he would have cared for the disgusting and unchecked consumerism Americans live by and how we enjoy a standard of life at expense of the 3rd world. I don’t think he’d like how we send innocent women and men to die for nothing in a war based on lies.

I felt this way when I was a christian as well and its part of many reasons I left. All the more moral and compassionate and educated people weren’t in churches.

You are right, Doug can defend himself but I had ignored your comments previously and something about your post just upset me and I thought I’d enter my 2 cents. Free speech and all right?

I didn’t know you were really friends and agreed to disagree. I have a libertarian friend at work who I don’t totally agree with but I don’t speak to him like he’s misled misinformed disingenious ignoramus. Seriously, go read your words, they don’t seem like the words of a “happy, loving, spirit-filled” person.

Just by saying what you did in your last sentence is so insulting, can you not see it? Its essentially saying, “look what I have and you don’t and look how what I have is 10 million times better than yours.” Thats not the christianity people I respect, its being self-righteous and obnoxious even though you think it looks like you are saying “I want all the world to experience peace and love.” You are just bragging and boasting and that is all.

You don’t know me or my heart. Here’s some scriptures I know, since it seems to be your language:

“Judge not, that ye be not judged” and “Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor”

Perhaps you’ll say I translated them wrong and they do not mean what I think they mean, but, well, that seems to be your way.

I am not a hate-filled or enraged person. I have good days and bad days like anyone else. I get mad at people like any other human being but I am also probably the most forgiving person you will ever meet. I try to treat others as they would like to be treated, but if you do not treat my friends and family with respect , I will make it clear that you are wrong.

I have gotten good at offending people I think are stupid and harmful people. Like Doug said, at least I’m passionate about my beliefs, just as you are.

A lot of people say ignorance is bliss, but really its mental slavery.

So far this weekend, I’ve gotten to spend time with my awesome liberal family. We spend a lot of time laughing and smiling. I will probably go to earthfest and walk around and learn things about what I can do to make the planet a better place instead of just hoping “god” bails us out after destroying it. There will be people of all faiths, races, genders and sexualities there and we’ll all be nice to each other and learn ways to proactively work for change instead of bowing to a wizard in the sky and hoping he feels like answering it that day and then giving credit to the wizard and not the more likely source of the desired outcome – humans, science or chance.

“Be the change you wish to see in the world.” Ghandi

Its easier said than done I know. I *TRY* to be tolerant of stupid people but its very hard for me, I’m not perfect and never claimed to be. Like I said, to me, its like trying to be loving and tolerant of the Nazi’s. My way of tolerating them is just to avoid them altogether. I am used to only conversing with liberals and if I had known you were his friend and not a troll, perhaps I would have used different wording in my first post but after your responses, I was just irritated and didn’t hold back.

I think what I was taught about Jesus in church and sunday school and by my family perhaps was wrong. I think maybe the picked the good things out of the bible and left the bad things because they could align those things with their consciences. Because they talked about love, acceptance, non-violence and compassion, so when I see people like you I think “what a horrible christian.”

I however, have gone back and read pieces of the bible that would have you stone sinners, kill your own son, sell your daughter into slavery, beat your children, etc etc. Your god is not terribly moral and not someone I think is worth worshipping. After reading the things your god did to others, I can see why you are the way you are.

Another good one by Ghandi:

“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”

Doug is a big boy and doesn’t need you to “defend” him. We know each other well enough that if he had a problem with anything I said, he will address it with me. We agree to disagree. We also respect each other’s beliefs and our respective right to hold on to them.

So go on and enjoy your weekend. We will be enjoying ours, surrounded by hundreds of other Christians, praising Jesus and loving Him and each other. There will be no crude jokes, angry lashing out at anyone or hating. Just loads of happy, loving, spirit-filled people joined in fellowship for the Glory of God. You have no idea how much we wish you (and everyone!) could experience just a tenth of this joy, and to know this awesome freedom.

Peace.

I will however, resort to immature insulting when I feel like someone I like and who I think is a good person is being insulted and being spoken to in a condescending matter. I was irritated with the ACLU having to ask TN schools to remove blocks on websites that could possibly allow a GLBT child to not feel so alone and persecuted, and by that, perhaps prevent their suicide, depression or hurt feelings.

I was upset by the response on WBIR and genuinely thought LissaKay was being rather a ____ to Doug (sorry thats how I felt). If you read her very first comment she is absolutely rude,condescending and self-righteous and it made me angry. That is NOT how I would treat my friends.If any of my friends spoke to me like that, they would quickly find themselves sans friend.

I will respond more sometime this weekend. Currently I’m exhausted from being up late helping my SO pack for his 2 weeks of National Guard drills. I now have to go join my evOl liberal family to celebrate my grandmothers 77th birthday (all those years spent as an yellow dog democrat <3)

That’s not a joke, no matter how much you try to dress it up after the fact. You even apologized twice to Doug for getting ugly on his blog. At least have the honesty and integrity to admit that you meant what you said.

Based on your writings, I have no respect to lose for you. You boast about your tolerance as you continually display your intolerance, which makes you a hypocrite as well as self deceived. The irony is that as I politely excuse myself from a situation where I am no longer comfortable, similarly to your avoidance of those who you loathe so deeply, you try to use that to mock me, revealing a certain amount of self loathing in the process.

I won’t offend you with my pity, or my prayers; I’ll just go my way.

Doug, this isn’t a fencing match or a debate. I wasn’t looking for an apology, although I accept yours as sincere. The problem is that Morgan wasn’t making a joke, and wasn’t just snarking as the bulk of her writings in this thread make absolutely clear. She loathes people like me and my wife by her own admission, and you are OK with that, and find her style of expressing that loathing to be acceptable.

I don’t.

Wishing violence on anyone is hateful. This is America, and free speech is one of the cornerstones of our greatness. She has every right to say how she feels, and you have every right to accept it.

And I have every right not to expose myself to it.

I would like to suggest that if someone said that your wife should be sexually assaulted because of her beliefs

Rich- Touché. Had I read such a comment as directed toward Cathy, I would be irate. Some 1283 words passed between that comment and the time that I responded. I did not read her comment as directed toward Lissa but as general snark toward the right. Snarky is rude and disrespectful but not hate and rage. I can see her comment being interpreted as hateful and rage filled. If you include the Moore/Coulter part of her quote it seems intended to be more snarky, less hate and rage. Only Morgan knows. Unfortunately the typed word is a poor conveyor of emotion as the interpretation is dependent upon the reader’s state of mind at the time of reading. You know me well enough to know that I did not mean to offend Lissa; I still like and respect the both of you. I sincerely apologize for offending you both.

I see the words “rage and hate” thrown around in these politic discussions far too much and that tactic of debate upsets me. It is designed to enrage which then proves the point…like entrapment. I think it is far too easy to point at someone passionately arguing their side of a topic and wag a finger decrying them as hate filled. To point at someone and call them hateful and full of rage is attacking their being whether accurate or not. It’s personal. It adds nothing to the debate. In an argument we need to attack provable points, not feelings. I own my feelings. Nothing someone says is going to change my feelings but if my point of view is altered then perhaps my feelings will change. My point view gets altered by seeing evidence of provable points. For instance, in comment #14, dkanasazi says that the tea party is less about the initial $700billion investment and more about the additional monies printed with no backing. That is a provable, arguable point that potentially changes my feelings on the topic of the Tea Parties. Instead the commenter could have simply asked, “why do you hate America?”, a question I heard so much in the past 8 years I thought my ears would bleed. Such a question is instigating, provoking, and unprovable.

With your continued use of the deeply offensive “teabagging” slander

Continued use? I’ve mentioned it twice. The first time was because I was seeing the term used by both the right and left and bloggers and mainstream media and I really wanted to jump and up and down and in my best Inigo Montoya cry out, “You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.” The second was in this post to point out that I find it very offensive. I just don’t see where I have promoted or advocated its use.

The first people I heard using the term in conjunction with this thing was some wingnut group who wanted to “teabag the White House” and/or “teabag Congress,” by sending the tea brand of one’s choice to these buildings/elected representatives via the US mail (a service largely paid for by taxpayer dollars, predictably…) It looked to me like those commentators and comedians on the left were reacting to the term folks on the right were already using. (Even on the day of the protests, I’m pretty sure I saw video of some FoxNews guy (Eric Shawn, was it?) using the term “teabagging protest” to describe the gathering about which he was reporting…)

(and as an aside…) How many of these protests would’ve been seriously curtailed if these anti-tax folks took their convictions rto heart enough to’ve avoided using taxpayer funded parks to hold ‘em, and taxpayer funded streets to get to ‘em, while having taxpayer funded police keeping them safe while they were at ‘em, moaning about their taxes being lowered by Obama, and EVERYONE’S taxes being lower than they were under Saint Ronald?

Elections have consequences, my rightward leaning friends… You were voted out because the American people preferred not to continue down the path you were taking us. Not being in power is supposed to suck, and I’ve no doubt it does. But until you can offer positive solutions that amount to more than “Let ‘em all fail… I got mine,” people prolly aren’t going to rally to your cause.

Teeth + scrotum + unwilling partner = ouch

M

I think the bible condones slavery and human trafficking and everything that that would entail, sexual assault, etc.

Exodus 21: 7

So if its “gods word” then whats the problem?

I however, do not condone sexual assault and was making an off-color joke. However as much as Ann Coulter hates women she probably DOES agree with them being assaulted.

None of my liberal friends would ever lose respect for me or toss aside my friendship over a JOKE. Many of my friends would joke about teabagging me and I would take no offense, and I’d laugh, because laughter is the best thing in this life and I wish you all had more of it.

I don’t know how you can stand this woman. Is she related to you?
Reaganomics? Anybody?
I’d pay good money to see someone wipe their sweaty hairy scrotum on these backwoods rightwing nutjobs.

doug:

Even in Morgan’s comments above I don’t see rage or hatred but passion, passion in her belief that you are wrong.

Doug, I would like to suggest that if someone said that your wife should be sexually assaulted because of her beliefs, then you might see some rage and hatred there. I won’t test that theory because at one time I liked and respected you and Cathy.

Sadly, that is no longer the case. With your continued use of the deeply offensive “teabagging” slander, and the fact that you are ok with the above comment by Morgan, it is clear that I have seriously misjudged you.

And that’s too bad.

I don’t want to offend you by saying that I’ll pray for you and your family, but for whatever it’s worth, I will.

1 Cor 1:18

It doesn’t take the “lamestream media” to turn an item into an action. Carpetbags into carpetbagging for example. See it is quite easy, and in the case of the teabagging, it just to happened to have a humorous connotation that I’m POSITIVE the conservatives would have jumped on if they’d been on the opposite side.

I have no class…oooh ok, because we’ve met right, and you know me. Well I’ll just say some random things that have no basis in reality but will amuse me.

I have more class than:

..you have braincells…
…you have teeth that are originally yours…
..you have semi-automatic weapons stashed in your backwoods arsenal…
..you have statues of african americans eating watermelon…
…confederate flags…
…precious moments statues…
…plaques with Footprints and a cheezy picture…
…looney tunes paraphenalia..
…cars on blocks…
…copies of the King James Bible…
..unwanted, neglected and abused children brought into this world by pro-lifers…

Sorry Doug I had some time to kill at work and needed something to amuse myself with. I made lots of stereotype-based generalities, but I figure, as long as we are making sh*t up, I’ll go hog wide.

I’m just so happy Obama got elected. I’m happy these people have their websites and their teabagging. Now they know how we felt the last 8 years. I don’t think Obama is perfect but so far I am pleased he is trying. I’m still pleased I sent him money and voted for him. There are plenty of people that hate him but all that matters is that there are more that love him and that makes me sleep better at night that we are heading more and more towards a more perfect union. Even if he turns out to be an uneffective president because of attempting bipartisanship to appease all these haters, I’m still so happy that a majority got together and said, “we are tired of fear.” No matter how much they try, they can’t take away my refound patriotism.

I think we are experiencing the last sad gasps of a dying breed, the religious conservative. Its kind of like in the movies when the bad guy you think is dead reaches out and grabs your ankle and you finish him off.

Anyhoo, I share Doug’s love of debate as long as it sticks to the facts — unicorns aside. No matter what driving force was behind the protests, I’m glad to live in a country where people are allowed to do that.